What happens when you put a pioneer of the CCRC model, the CEO who's been pushing value-based care for decades, and the creative mind behind Meow Wolf on the same couch? Conversations that go deeper than your typical panel.
The latest episode of The (Not) Late SLIF Show – recorded live at the Senior Living Innovation Forum in Santa Ana Pueblo, NM – delivered the kind of honest dialogue that reveals new perspectives on familiar challenges.
John Erickson didn't just build communities – he ignored every piece of industry "wisdom" along the way. Opening his first community in 1983 with 16.5% mortgage rates? His residents didn't care. As Erickson described their mindset: "whatever it is, it is, it's my time of life to make the next change."
The industry pushback was real when he introduced 100% refundable entrance fees while everyone else kept $250,000 deposits. His bet on serving middle America instead of just the wealthy proved the market could be "20 times the size."
The best part: When experts warned never to build more than 300 units because it would be "like an atomic reactor" with "all those old people together," Erickson kept building anyway. Turns out larger communities created better social ecosystems.
The lesson: Sometimes the conventional wisdom is just wrong.
Lynne Katzmann was an early adopter of value-based care, working on programs in the early 1980s. A program she helped develop in Puerto Rico is still running with 40,000 members.
But Lynne's sharpest insight was about what's holding the industry back: "Fear. Fear. Fear. Our own fear of aging, ageism, and the ostrich syndrome."
Her call to action was direct: "Don't let someone else have the seat at the table. We need to control our own destiny." Because insurers know the minute someone moves into senior living, their health outcomes improve. Why shouldn't operators benefit from that value?
The challenge: Stop letting insurance companies decide how healthcare dollars get spent in our communities.
Vince Kadlubek, Co-Founder of Meow Wolf, brought insights from outside our industry bubble. His focus on breaking down barriers that keep creativity from everyone resonated in unexpected ways.
His key observation: "Exploration and discovery can really only happen within the context of the unknown... and it's harder to step into that unknown space the older you get."
But Vince also had a warning about the future of content and experiences. As AI creates an "infinite amount of content" that becomes increasingly "soulless," he sees physical, in-person experiences becoming more valuable than ever. "What AI cannot do is actually the thing that is now gonna have a ton of value."
The guy who creates immersive art experiences sees what we sometimes miss – people don't just need housing, they need opportunities for wonder and discovery that can't be replicated by algorithms.
The collaboration potential: When asked about building Meow Wolf-style immersive spaces in senior living communities, Vince's enthusiastic "Yeah, that would be amazing" sparked genuine excitement in the room. The idea of bringing secret passageways, interactive art, and spaces that encourage exploration into senior living isn't just creative - it's strategic.
'These three didn't just share stories – they outlined a different path forward. One where operators use data to prove value, fight for healthcare revenue, and create experiences that go beyond housing.
The message was clear: The industry's biggest opportunities require stepping outside our comfort zone.
Watch the full episode below for all the insights, honest moments, and unexpected connections that happened when these three got together.